reading things

[gfrancie]

I finished reading In Search of Ancient Ireland awhile ago. It was a great book and provided me with more insight into the Irish culture. It also made me really angry. (genetic memory?) Reading about how Ireland was invaded by the English just brought out a lot of emotions in me. It wasn't as simple as Henry II looking across the water and going, "hey that looks nice, I will have that." It was the result of pride, foolishness and greed on the part of many. The church in Rome wasn't too fond of the Irish church because they were fairly independent, wealthy and weren't terribly beholden to the Vatican. The Irish church really didn't need the Roman church all that much. The monastic communities (and they were communities in every sense of the word.) built their own wealth through scholarship, land and the occasional raid/war on a neighboring monastic community. There is much about the early Irish church that appeals to me. Women had a significant role in the church. (there were some women running things) Monks/priests could marry and had children and the families lived in these communities. It wasn't just a bunch of guys in robes by themselves. There was this interesting mesh of old pagan ways and the new elements of this religion. Yet there were plenty who wanted a piece of the action. Pope Adrian IV (who was from England) was really pushing for Ireland to be put in their place. If one is going to have a historical arch-nemesis, I think Pope Adrian is my new one. The man essentially waged a slur campaign against Ireland saying that they were a nation of savages and needed to be civilized. He wanted them to follow Gregorian reforms. (women losing their role in the church, celibate priests and so on..)
EXCUSE ME POPE ADRIAN. While the rest of Europe was having a lost weekend (also known as the Dark Ages) and much of western civilization was being lost to the ages, the Irish were saving this information and writing everything down and keeping it going. Many of the courts in mainland Europe had Irish scholars because they were the ones who were often educated in Greek, Latin, math, science and history. The Irish essentially brought civilization back to consciousness. Pardon while I get upset for awhile.
Anyhow, so Henry had this papal bull but didn't really address it for awhile because he was occupied with other matters. Then this ousted King from Ireland (there were a lot of Kings in Ireland. More like being chief of your particular area) wanted to get back at some and he hooked up with Henry. This king essentially cut off his nose to spite his face by joining up with the Normans and invading his country.

It seems like the Roman Church has spent hundreds of years trying to make things ugly for the Irish. Yet the other thing I took from this book is that on a collective level, the Irish wouldn't completely accept being Subjugated. The spirit is never entirely put to rest. It is like watching two boxers go at it and one might be down on the ground and you think the guy is out and then he grabs the other guy by the ankle and pulls him off of his feet.

Anyhow... after that I read a cozy murder mystery and now I am reading a book about obscure moments in history. Because I am a dork.

Comments

[jawnbc]

It's a troubling history, isn't it? That the Irish remain a literature, poetic and passionate people is as good as any revenge methinks.

I'm down with St. Brigid.

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

St. Brigid is such a cool saint.

It is a mind-fucking history.

[needlediva.livejournal.com]

"europe's last stone-age people"....it was an english poet who called the irish that.
in the twentieth century.some things never change.

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

It just makes me want to shout, "the fuck???? THE.FUCK."

[needlediva.livejournal.com]

there have been much worse and much more offensive things said about the irish over the centuries. it just goes on.

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

Totally! (You should know)
Be it the government or the religion, it seems like there is always a force with a truly horrible agenda.

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

Do you go around saying, "yeah...sorry about that."

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

So what you are saying is you want a Christmas card as thanks. "Merry Christmas and thanks for all that rape and opression. We owe you one."

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

It would work. Food passive-aggressive commentary about people who have been wronged. Then? There would be pie.

[ooxc.livejournal.com]

"there were a lot of Kings in Ireland. More like being chief of your particular area)"

I suppose that they were the equivalent of Welsh princes? Some would argue that the big mistake of the princes of Qwynedd was their claim to the whole of Wales

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

I suppose. What is interesting is that Kings were elected. Just because your Father was King didn't mean that you would be as well.

[ooxc.livejournal.com]

Um - Welsh princes succeeded both by inheritance (usually the maternal line) and by acclamation - which isn't quite the same thing as election.
Some of us speculated fruitlessly what might have happened in 1953 if the acclamation hadn't happened in Westminster Abbey - or if anyone had objected

[ooxc.livejournal.com]

i like that

[needlediva.livejournal.com]

dont forget all the women and children (millions) sold into slavery in the west indies by your friend and mine, That Rat Bastard Cromwell.

[ooxc.livejournal.com]

I like Brangwen, who married an Irish prince and died (it's said) of a broken heart when Wales went to war with Ireland
Her burial place is commemorated among the sand dunes of Aberffraw, where it's said tar she retreated