gfrancie: (madamx)
[personal profile] gfrancie
If I hear one more parent tell me how their little Kaleigh or Madison is very "mature and precocious" for three I may have to take the parent and sit them down and tell them the horrible truth.
"No your sweet darling child is not precocious. I am sure they are highly entertaining... even spirited but they are not fucking geniuses."

I was working in the kids section and I keep getting these people wanting books for their kids and apparently we have a full generation of Stephen Hawkings wandering around the playground. They always start out with, "well she/he is very very advanced and they need something that will help them."
Right.
It was all I had within me to not hand a parent a copy of "War and Peace" and say, "Get back to me." I even asked one parent if the child was reading (I admit to be a bastard) and it seems the wee one couldn't read but was still...very very advanced for their age.

I understand all parents want to think that their child is brilliant, original and has great insight in their world but really one must face facts. Most three year olds are slightly distracted nose pickers. Often very funny easily distracted nose pickers but still...they are people who are prone to be very upset when they don't get their way and aren't known for paying attention to something for a very long time.
God Bless them.
I just have no patience for this self-delusion on the part of the parents. Especially when I meet the child and this precocious and very verbal child is spending their time with their thumb in their mouth and runs around the room and giggling when someone farts.

Whatever happened to wanting to raise a child who is kind of fun and normal. You know the kid may not play like Mozart or offer critiques of the work of Mondrian but can say, "please" and "thank you" when reminded and likes to draw you pretty pictures that could either be a dinosaur or Grandpa.
Just let the child be a kid and read to them, "Mike Mulligan and his Steam Shovel".

...

I had another interesting customer today. An rather waspy woman who found out her nine year old daughter had been playing doctor. It seems that she feels it is high time to have a chat about the difference between ladies and gentlemen and where babies come from. So she needed the right books to talk about this sort of thing. I suppose it surprised me a bit that she is now discussing these things. I admit I come from a very progressive family and these things were always discussed in the open. When I was three My Mother told me she was to have a baby and I was a bit curious as to where this baby was going to come out. She told me and I proceeded to share (when waiting with my Mother at the bus stop) with strangers this fascinating information. "My Mama is going to have a baby and it is in her uterus and is going to come out of her vagina." (Now I wouldn't call myself precocious at that age...just a bit of a smarty-pants) Strangers would look a little surprised and then say, "Ah...well...um...good." I bet I gave them a good story to tell friends. I then began to wonder how the hell the baby got to the uterus in the first place. My Mother explained all of that to me and I was all fine and dandy about that. My Mother is definitely keen on the idea of being honest with a child but she learned early on to first answer any question I had about sex with "How much do you really want to know."
She first came to that when I heard someone say something on the playground that confused me. I was about six. I came home from school that day and said, "I heard this one kid tell this other kid, 'My friend got fucked in the ass.' What do they mean by that exactly." My Mother later told me that internally she was screaming, "oh my fucking God what did my baby just fucking say...." but she very calmly explained a few things to me and I said, "oh...gross." and I went out to play.
So pretty much growing up when kids would hear things they would ask me because often I knew what was what and if I didn't know I would say, "well let me go home and ask my Mom she would know."
I think the only thing she wouldn't tell me was the definition of the word felching because she said, "it is just too disgusting to mention. Even Uncle Stephen thinks it is gross." Uncle Stephen being one of my many honorary gay uncles given to flamboyant behavior and saying anything infront of small children. I left it at that and when I finally found out the definition (accidentally from a friend one day when I was about sixteen) I was awfully glad she had not told me. Good lord...the things a person does to get their kicks.

So back to this Waspy woman she said to me when I helped her find books, "I am from New England we just don't talk about those sorts of things." I sort of ended up playing professional with her (this happens a lot in bookshops) and told her the best way to approach these things is to be honest, never shy away from questions and always ask, "how much do you want to know?" I then hooked her up with a copy of "Reviving Ophelia", Where Did I Come From, and What's Happening to Me. I like those two books because they have a sense of humour and offer some nice analogies. Plus the drawings are pretty darn funny.
I told her keeping a sense of humour was very important.
She left feeling much better about the whole thing.

What a day.

I also kept grace under fire when dealing with really atrocious conservatives. If I hear one more start spouting the dogma of their talk show host of choice I may be forced to use a copy of "Ulysses" in a manner for which it was never intended.

Date: 2004-08-19 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] popcultureicon.livejournal.com
"Ulysses" was always meant for just that intention. and you know it.
and yes, I am talking about forced rectal insertion.

Date: 2004-08-19 10:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
*laughs* I was thinking of maybe adding some curry to the mix.

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do the children have hooves?

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Worse they have trendy names.

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Re: Worse they have trendy names.

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Date: 2004-08-19 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freudian-slip.livejournal.com
heh, yes well, we will see what happens when YOU have a kid ;-)

Date: 2004-08-19 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
I will insist everyone around me will remind me that it is just a baby and while it is cute it isn't a genius.
Your job is to keep me incheck with reality.

Maybe it helps that I have changed a million diapers, took care of my siblings a ton and hung out with a lot of small people.

They are fun at that age but most are not freaking geniuses.

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Date: 2004-08-19 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lightprincess89.livejournal.com
Man I've met those parents. I know some very funny three year olds who I like, but none of them are genius. the late Mr. Gibson used to always like to think I was the little frail child who was very very brilliant or something like that....I don't know. I was just like any little girl then....wanting to play with other little girls and talking about how gross boys are. Sheesh!

Date: 2004-08-20 09:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Yeah...I remember that. I think you were a perceptive kid but you weren't some sick little genius.

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Re: that's something

Date: 2004-08-20 09:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Sounds like a Mother who wasn't exactly maternal.

Date: 2004-08-20 05:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] emmabovary.livejournal.com
An excellent and relevant post. Thank you.

While vacationing back in Marin County-- ground zero, I believe, for pretentious, older mothers who all think their fourth-grade offspring are "reading at a high-school level" (and that is nothing to be proud of anymore, given the state of the California education system)--I got sick of it all and told these ladies that my little Amelie was reading Mein Kampf in the original.

That shut'em up.

Date: 2004-08-20 09:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
reading at high school level. *laughs* The parents aren't reading very closely or are just being vague. Many kids read at ninth grade level.

I like your approach. My Mom talks about how from the second a child is born all the mother's are comparing. who held their head up first, who walked first, who wrote a thesis on molecular structures first. You name it.

I think by now my Mother has had enough kids and has been a Mother long enough she doesn't participate openly. But she says she does take joy in doing it a little.
She now uses my boyfriend as a trump card when people are comparing the boyfriend/girlfriends of grown children.
*laughs*

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Date: 2004-08-20 07:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarahparah.livejournal.com
It is unavoidable to think your child is special in some way. It is genetically built in so you don't throw them out the window.

Date: 2004-08-20 07:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robiewankenobie.livejournal.com
*cracks the hell up*

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Date: 2004-08-20 07:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robiewankenobie.livejournal.com
i have pretty realistic expectations, i think. but this doesn't mean that every once and awhile when the kid says something i don't think, "genius! that kid is pure genius!" 'cause sometimes i do. and i have told him all the age appropriate versions body parts and their functions. my mother always asked not how much you wanted to know, but what you wanted to know. she said that most times the kid wanted to know about far less than the elaborate discussion she had swirling about in her head.

Date: 2004-08-20 09:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Exactly. That makes perfect sense and every parent should do that.

I just think there are too many people out there with no clue.

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Date: 2004-08-20 08:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] noogienubs.livejournal.com
Especially when I meet the child and this precocious and very verbal child is spending their time with their thumb in their mouth and runs around the room and giggling when someone farts.

Dude! That sounds like me!

Date: 2004-08-20 09:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Yeah I love those kids!
They are pretty funny and often very sweet.

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Date: 2004-08-20 08:21 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
i can say this now, what with having been in the mom game for so long. one of the truly entertaining things about having kids is not the brilliant witty incisive things they say(tho those can be fun)--it's the remarkably stupid things they say that make me laugh out loud when they're not listening. And i'm not telling you what those things were til you're older.

Date: 2004-08-20 09:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Oh I would prefer to never know. I am still mortified a bit by what I said to strangers when I was three. Mostly mortified for you.

I just don't believe that every three year old on the block is "gifted".

Date: 2004-08-20 08:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cusackam.livejournal.com
Ugh we have a wife from Jamaica in our FRG and she will go on and on and on and on etc.. about how "gifted" her 3 year old is. No no no she is not just smart she is just incredibly gifted. I've seen this kid several times and I have yet to see what is so amazingly "gifted" about her.

Date: 2004-08-20 09:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
YES! I think every kid will have something interesting/unique about them but this whole idea of being "gifted" just cracks me up.

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Date: 2004-08-20 08:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artemis-moon.livejournal.com
I wanna hear you describe what felching is.

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Date: 2004-08-20 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Right. A parent should see what talents their kid might have and just encourage them but not be some weird stupid nazi about it.

Date: 2004-08-20 11:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cogshiftingman.livejournal.com
It would be refreshing to hear a parent say: "My little Nigel, he's a bit short on the brain cells, and physically incapable of holding a spoon. He's 18 now, but I was wondering if you have any of those books with thick cardboard pages for him? He likes to chew them."

Date: 2004-08-20 07:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
*laughs* I actually get a few of those parents. They are pretty cool.
They pretty much leave it up to me to find something that might inspire a kid who may not dig reading all that much.
[livejournal.com profile] heatherfeathyr put it best. No matter what you show the parents of the "gifted" kids they are never satisfied.

Date: 2004-08-20 11:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] photosexual.livejournal.com
haha! this made me convulse madly at work. Trying not to howl and bray in response. People just thought I was hopped up on the goofballs again, so it's not a big problem.

One of these days, I'm coming into that bookstore of yours, and pretending like I don't know you, and seeking you out to lecture me on the wide array of reading and art that will enlighten me to the kama sutra. I may also rent a child and perform this same stunt, but this time, with child in tow, will tell you that little Timmy here is a chemistry genius, and after too successfully making meth, and explosives (and then I'll pull our pantlegs up to show you our shiny, newly installed home-prison bracelet monitoring devices) that the probation officers suggested something stimulating and challenging for his young mind that doesn't explode or get anybody high. And see how you can kill an hour with us, while I find a way to ensure than anything you offer has a way to blow up or stone people. I'm clever like that sometimes.

but not often. So you're ok for the near future, but oh, when I'm bored, I'm coming in!

Date: 2004-08-20 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
You know I would display a calm attitude and hand you off to someone I hate just to watch them squirm whil you scare the crap out of them.

precocious

Date: 2004-08-20 12:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] abadman.livejournal.com
My mother always held me up as the smart one, and for many years I believed the hype. Since then I've met some very smart people. I now realize that smart is a relative term. It means completely different things in different environments. For instance, among my stupid relatives I'm pretty smart. Even out in the larger world, I don't often find myself on the stupid side of the line. But when confronted with true genius, I'm humbled pretty quickly.

As a kid though, precocious may have applied. I definitely had my own ideas about things. I think I was about seven when I decided that religion was bunk. There was also no end to the stress I would cause my grade school teachers by arguing that the homework shouldn't apply to me if I can ace all of their tests without doing the exercises. By about third grade I was already mathematically weighing point system in the syllabus to find a way to pass the class by acing all of the test and doing the absolute minimal amount of homework. I pissed of my second grade teacher so badly, that she put me on a short bus for about a week to have me evaluated. They sent me back to her claiming that I had an IQ of about 129 and that I was basically just board and lazy. She used to turn purple with frustration partly because I would remain so calm while manipulating the situation. I think it was in about 4th grade when I deduced that the God I was taught about in school and church was nothing more than a myth. I can also recall grappling with some rather lofty existential questions in grade school. I recall stumbling across the Decarte "I think therefore I am" concept of my own accord as a child way before I had read any philosophy.

Yes, if I were less of a shit I might have had some potential. After a few rough miles and a lot of squandered talent, I'm now just barely smart enough to recognize genius when I see it. I unfortunately also have a keen eye for stupidity.

Re: precocious

Date: 2004-08-20 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
So you were a little quicker on the ball then some kids. It just goes to show that it doesn't mean the kid will be some Bill Gates.

Date: 2004-08-20 12:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morsefan.livejournal.com
On days like this when I see the number of comments you've got here, I honestly wonder not only how you keep up with them all, but how you keep up with all the conversation strands!

Date: 2004-08-20 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Lots of practice. It is like helping eight people at once at work and having another five interrupt you and demand help right then and there.

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Date: 2004-08-20 01:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] la-sherazade.livejournal.com
I just have to add to this conversation that I *was* a gifted kid (and I'm still a smarty-pants, if that counts for anything!), and my mom was always very supportive but not the bragging type really. Well, I was totally annoyed when I started in the I.B. (International Baccalaureate) program for high school and every time the subject came up, the other kids were like "Oh, yeah, I was reading at two." Yeah, r-i-g-h-t. Okay, let me tell you this. If you memorize the shape of words in the book that your parents read you every damned night and can recite the pages at will, that's not the same as reading. And, furthermore, so what if you can read at age 2? I am an intelligent person by most standards and learned to read properly at age 6, like most people. I don't think that I am any less intelligent because I had a childhood spent out playing with the calves and counting the stars. Quite the opposite. What is the rush? Having a 'gifted' child, as most people measure it, at age 2 or 3 or even 4 is not good for the child, even if it's good for the parents' egos. Let children be children, for goodness's sake. It's not as if they really ever get a second chance.

Date: 2004-08-20 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
I think that is another thing that bothers me. This rush to make sure the kid is super educated and has all of these experiences.
Just let the kid play dress-up and color.

Date: 2004-08-20 01:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heatherfeathyr.livejournal.com
i know the people you're talking about... ugh. i really hate them! they can NEVER make up their minds no matter what i show them

Date: 2004-08-20 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
ohmysweetjesus YES. Exactly.
Buncha whiners who can't decide and are never happy.

Date: 2004-08-20 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ekdogg.livejournal.com
yea, I believe the waspy woman...in New England, you just watch the neighborhood dogs do it and figure it out.

Date: 2004-08-20 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
*laughs*
This woman looked like she never saw dogs doing things and her children were voted into existence.

Date: 2004-08-20 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artemis-moon.livejournal.com
oh lordie!!

that sounds a bit odd.

with the straw or without.

Date: 2004-08-20 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
I know.
The things people do...

Date: 2004-08-20 09:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] closh2.livejournal.com
My cousin sarah is one of those kids that has been held up as a "smart well behaved girl who's so talented" The truth is, she's a normal 10 year old who has mediocre talent and is pretty sweet when she wants to be. Why do people insist on makign things more than they are!

On the other subject, I have no comment on this other than why?

Date: 2004-08-21 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swallowwhole.livejournal.com
okay, i know i'm a bit behind, and this may have been said, but your gifted child rant reminded me of PJ O'Rourke's Modern Manners, where he says:
Correct infant care is vital to producing "Super Babies." Super Babies are similar to regular babies except they belong to you.

i'm sure i'll be a horrible mother. my toddlers will just have to live with their genius un-nurtured, while i merely read to them the works of Richard Scarry and Dr. Seuss.

Date: 2004-08-22 01:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gfrancie.livejournal.com
Same here. I feel that Richard Scarry and Golden Books are much more important then Baby Einstein.
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